No vote for prisoners serving any form of sentence.

Prisoners serving sentences for either serious or lesser offences should unequivocally be denied the right to vote as their actions have demonstrated their incapability of abiding the law and functioning in society. 

Why the contribution is important

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by Brian5643 on November 28, 2018 at 10:23PM

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  • Posted by mikelees November 28, 2018 at 23:37

    "Prisoners serving sentences for either serious or lesser offences should unequivocally be denied the right to vote as their actions have demonstrated their incapability of abiding the law and functioning in society".
    Your brief statement is to the point but perhaps raises more questions than it answers.
    You presume that everyone convicted is guilty - the evidence shows that is not the case.
    Even those who are actually guilty - you state that they have demonstrated that they are incapable of abiding by the law.... it may well be that they have broken the law.. have you ever been charged with speeding? If you struggled to feed your children would you steal food? If during your childhood you had been shown very little love and direction....would you always make the right choices regarding right and wrong.
    You then mention that they are unable to function in society... quite clearly they can and do function in society... but perhaps not in the way society wants... does this mean they should be totally excluded from society. Dangerous ground when we start to look at the benefits each of us bring to our immediate family, neighbourhood and society as a whole. We then perhaps start to look at who is the biggest drain on society and whether they should continue to receive the help and support needed for them to function in and contribute to that society. What do we do with those who don't fit in, those who do not conform, and those who challenge societies and the establishments' norms?
    Most of the beneficial changes for the majority of people in this country have come through individuals and or groups challenging the establishment and in some cases ending up in prison. Suffragettes, unions, civil rights movements, slavery, dangerous workplace practices, children going up chimneys, etc.
    We as a society function much better when we allow and in some cases encourage people to be different, rather than toe the line. Groups such as UKIP and other fascist organisations loose support when they are allowed to speak out....
  • Posted by Brian5643 November 29, 2018 at 23:30

    Yes, wrongful convictions have certainly occurred over the years but the majority convicted are undoubtedly guilty of their crimes. We have an incredibly rigorous justice system that is both thorough and cautious in its approach to convicting.
    In response to your questions, I have not been charged with speeding and most definitely not stolen or contemplated thieving from others. It's quite simple, have some discipline, dignity and respect for others. A lot of people have experienced difficult upbringings and have proceeded to excel in life which is a testament to their character. Being shown "little love or direction" is quite simply a poor and pathetic excuse.
    I'm unsure on what you mean by "not in the way society wants"? I really don't think society "wants" or forces people to behave or act in any particular way. Again, it's simply abiding and following laws which have been set to glue all people in society and prevent anarchy. The current way in which we deal with people who do not comply by the law is effective i.e. time in prison, community service, fines etc which surely should deter any future misbehaviour or criminal activity.
    We have come a real long way since the days of slavery and children going up chimneys... Yes, there were appalling practices decades ago, however, in this day and age I firmly believe we have established what is right and what is wrong.
    Of course, everyone should be encouraged to share ideas and opinions no matter what the discussion. However, the law, i.e what we are allowed to do and informing us what we are prohibited from doing is integral for a functioning society, ensuring people's safety and rights of citizens against any form of abuse by others and even the establishment itself.
    Your last sentence is very contradictory since you "encourage people to be different" but then say UKIP "lose support when they are ALLOWED to speak out"? Surely they have a right to shed ideas and opinions on political matters even if you and I disagree with them. Stigmatizing UKIP as a fascist organisation in which I believe you intended not only offends the many followers/members associated with this party but is really not helpful when the policies themselves should be scrutinised and debated. I'ts certainly unfair to brand all UKIP members/voters as fascist as it is the same to brand all Labour members/voters anti-Semitic.

  • Posted by mikelees November 30, 2018 at 23:31

    You obviouslyhave more belief and trust in the robustness and fairness of the justice system than I do.
    You say it is quite simple, we just need discipline, dignity and respect. Do you think that it is nature or nurture that helps to give us these simple code?
    Slavery has just changed / it still exists throughout the world, including Wales.
    We still live in a society which is comfortable when families and individuals suffer die because of targeted establishment policies. We still live in a society which is institutionaly racist. We still live in a society where class is more important than ability. So much still to do and fight for.
    Not sure how you gone to the conclusion that the current justice system is fit for purpose - it patently doesn’t work - just look at reoffending rates.
    Regarding the last sentence - yes you are right it is my view that UKIP is a racist facist party - however I do not believe that everyone who votes UKIP is a racist or facist - people vote for parties for many different reasons - not all to related to policy!!
    I say allowed - because there is currently a lot of groups who do not feel that such opinions should be given a platform. I believe they should be and we should call them for what they are. Such groupsparties have policies which are racist and facist.... they attempt to turn us against each other - scapegoating sections of society for the troubles of society.
    I doubt we will agree but thanks for listening and sharing your views with me.
    Mike
  • Posted by mikelees November 30, 2018 at 23:34

    I wish more people would take the opportunity to share their views on Dialogue.
  • Posted by SeneddRhysJ December 05, 2018 at 18:12

    Thanks very much for your view @Brian5643 and for sharing your comments @mikelees - do you think any special considerations should apply to young offenders in custody if the voting age is lowered to 16 and 17 year olds?

  • Posted by mikelees December 06, 2018 at 18:16

    Exactly the same as over 18 voters - so no special considerations.
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